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Which is best?
CMS
25%
 25%  [ 5 ]
Website X5
75%
 75%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 20


 CMS vs Website X5 
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krsna
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Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:11 am    Post subject: CMS vs Website X5 Reply with quote

Come on guys pour in ur views regarding CMS vs Website X5

CMS-Content management System(Drupal,Joomla,Pligg)
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deepbluesea



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like Websitex5 with CMS.
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cheekyman
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink

I wouldn't want anyone changing my pages I had done.....
....or even contributing.

So on that note I don't want CMS!




Cheekyman (Frank) Cool
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 Incomedia already have the CMS almost ready (reposted) 
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aszxx5



Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 15
Location: BRAZIL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Incomedia already have the CMS almost ready (reposted) Reply with quote

Sorry, I think this is a better place to be read.

WebSiteX5 IS a CMS, but the problem is that we, designers and programmers, mostly don't want to give so much power to our customers, neither let them even know that their website was made with this tool, otherwise we will quickly be unnecessary.

I suggest that you simply release a CMS Module that should be a WebSite X5 version locked to a IWP file layout, were our customers can change objects contents, but locked to move, change or insert other objects. That way, when the customer needs a design change, we can provide and be paid for it.

I think that this can even be sold per URL, making you receive more money and letting us to customize our brand in the module.

Well, I'll be very happy to include the CMS in the website development cost, so no problem to buy a new CMS Module for each website I make.

This will make the actual WebSiteX5 version last longer with just some little effort to make the CMS Module available.

Please let me know if you agree with this strategy, guys!


Cheers!!
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 Re: Incomedia already have the CMS almost ready (reposted) 
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deepbluesea



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: Incomedia already have the CMS almost ready (reposted) Reply with quote

aszxx5 wrote:
Sorry, I think this is a better place to be read.

WebSiteX5 IS a CMS, but the problem is that we, designers and programmers, mostly don't want to give so much power to our customers, neither let them even know that their website was made with this tool, otherwise we will quickly be unnecessary.

I suggest that you simply release a CMS Module that should be a WebSite X5 version locked to a IWP file layout, were our customers can change objects contents, but locked to move, change or insert other objects. That way, when the customer needs a design change, we can provide and be paid for it.

I think that this can even be sold per URL, making you receive more money and letting us to customize our brand in the module.

Well, I'll be very happy to include the CMS in the website development cost, so no problem to buy a new CMS Module for each website I make.

This will make the actual WebSiteX5 version last longer with just some little effort to make the CMS Module available.

Please let me know if you agree with this strategy, guys!


Cheers!!


Great suggestion.
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Nige
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having designed a few websites around WebsiteX5 one of the main requests has been to permit the client to update specified areas of the site.

So far I have only had one site where it was incorporated and in that instance I used CushyCMS, which was invoked by adding code to the X5 generated pages in the text areas required. Minimum knowledge of HTML was required.

It worked well except when the text went outside the dimensions of the X5 created <div> </div> container when the overflowing text was cut off.

Maintenance was a potential problem in that each change and upload required the adding in of the CMS code to the regenerated site.

I have lost business by not being able to offer a 'proper' solution ie its inclusion in X5. The addition of a CMS option would, in my opinion, be a step in the right direction.

We have the 'blog' option offered, I've never used it, so why not CMS!
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Icm
Incomedia Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 4100
Location: Incomedia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi folks,

we also had the same idea (creating a sort of limited version) but in this case the problems are:
- what should be the price of this version?
- what should be the name of this version? If we call it WebSite X5, then your customer can decide to buy the 'full' version.

This idea should be good if the 'full' version of wsx5 costs 600€ (!? Rolling Eyes ), and the limited version cost 30€. In this case the end customer can just decide to buy the 'limited' version because of the price.

I think that there could be 2 ways (as you also suggested):
- let the author of the website be able to 'lock' some properties (template, pages, etc). In this case the end user can use wsx5 (the 'full' version) but cannot edit all the options of his project
- permit to set some objects (text and images) to be modified using a CMS solution.

Personally I think that the second way could be interesting...

Icm
Incomedia Moderator
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Nige
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the inclusion of a 'CMS Object' could be a way forward. Some thought would. however, need to be given as to how any site updates made could be included in regenerated sites.

This is the area where things could become very difficult and, as Icm mentions, development costs could make the final product expensive.

Mind you the future sales and update volumes could require only a small increase in price, with the cost spread over a larger number of sales! With such an enhancement the number of X5 sales would undoubtedly increas also.

Sorry about my ramblings.
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Logologics
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say a lot of clients dont have time to update their websites, so in that case its not an issue.
Yet I lost clients over the fact that they cant update their sites with a online cms. Installing software, not being able to update from any location or computer is for a lot of clients a dealbreaker indeed.

I already tried other editors with cms ( invender ) but they are not as user friendly as website X5 !!!

It would be great if website x5 could basicly stay the same and a extra module could be bought for those who need a online cms.

Here it would be great if the client was restricted of changing the layout itself. Now I have clients who bought website x5 and are updating their sites, but tried to change the layout and made an ugly mess of it.

WHen others look at that site, it not good for my reputation, people might thing I deliverd the site like this...
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aszxx5



Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 15
Location: BRAZIL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exclamation A glimpse of a possible future:
I have a propaganda and design office and observe an interesting reality in the market:
- Customers doing the job themselves and
- Print bureaus doing design and even publicity jobs.
The problem is that the suppliers became our competitors for the customers, and they surelly wins the battle since they can offer the print service. But killing us they also die: It's a kind of canibalism.

Idea That said, I think that even letting the customer know about X5 is an unecessary risk for us, developers, and for you, as without us you can sell less. Why? Let me explain:

Idea Idea What about have all of us as ICM salemans? Easy!! Idea Idea

The solution in my point of view is:
Idea - To have a CMS module customizable to our customer, with no reference to X5 or Icm (just clean up some programming lines of X5 and you're done!);
Idea - Let us buy ONE CMS MODULE PER URL (that way you will have all our past, present and future customers websites as potential market);

Idea The name: what about "XCMS" or "ICMS" ?!

Idea The X5 price: X5 is positioned too cheaply. 250€ or even 500€ still worth.

Idea The ICMS Module price: For me it really doesn't matter so much, as it's a plus paid for the customer, but, as today the X5 version is about 70€, the module should costs between 35€ and 50€. For a 250€ X5, about 100-120€, and for a 500€ X5, about 150-200€. As I charge a minimum of 1000€ per website I develop (stylish but very simple one), 50€ more for the customer are peanuts!

Of course, this is my reality... lets see the 'mob rules'!
Also, let us know your price gap, its good for us as market research.

Cheers!!

PS1:
Idea Think about doing an "Expert Forms and Surveys Module" and a "Expert Social Network Module" (this could be new objects added to the X5v8)

PS2:
What ever you think, pls, pls, pls, do it fast!! our websites are aging!!
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Logologics
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pricing.... Rolling Eyes

Here is the sofware that I currently am testing, but dont find it as user friendly as website x5 !!

http://www.invender.nl/product/Ezeee_Webdesign_CMS_Pro

They charge € 159 for the one URL licence.
I would consider this a fair price for website x5 with cms licence.
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milux
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Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 409
Location: /root/dev/random/

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before landing to WSX5, I developed website with this CMS : http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/

A nightmare : a lot of hours spent with software updates, a lot of hours and try to find the correct modules, a lot of time spent to create your own templates and a huge difficulty to place the website on search engines having to use the URL Rewrite rules.

And finally a CMS requires a database and an internet service provider with good performance.

All this means one thing: more time, more money, higher costs.

Webswite X5 is a very powerful within the reach of many, with a very low cost: this is his success.

If the problem is to give opportunity to the end user to update their content, it creates a WSX5 customer-front-end with the ability to edit only the section of the pages and not the general approach.

Sorry for my poor English ..

Michele
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cheekyman
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Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink

Hang on a minute people?

Wasn't this software purposely built for "Novices"

......and didn't it used to advertise "No HTML needed"

I have met 100's of users thinking that because they
have created their own 'superb' website they are now
website designers!

What makes you think that this CMS is going to work in
all browsers for a start? You all know some of the X5
functions don't work in Firefox!!

(Try Serif's WebPlus X4 CMS as a learning curve)

It really gets to me when an X5er says "My client wants?"
Then proceeds to ask me about how to embed a video in HTML!!
(I know a few X5er's now that are creating websites for
payment and cannot install half of the dynamic content needed)

Now a minority [POLL] are leading the march on CMS....
do you really think a $100+ CMS module is going to be
a great selling point for X5?

This is only my opinion guy's, but Wordpress, Joomla etc....
have been purpose built for the CMS and see how much
they're limited regarding structured templates and such!!

I've found that when you do a CMS website as I have done
many times.... the customer wants ongoing maintenance
when they get fed up of the same header or wants a video,
audio etc.... Instead of learning how to do it would rather
have you do it for them!!
Especially when you send them the bill.... some have said
"I wanted that done when you created the website why didn't
you do it then?" And no payment was received!!!


HTML 5 Rules OK!




Cheekyman (Frank) Cool
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Nige
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the replys so far we appear to be talking about 2 variations of CMS:-
a) A product that can be used to develop and amend all areas of a website, with the relevant admin rights ie Wordpress, Joomla etc.
b) a product that can be added to selected elements of the generated code ie CushyCMS.

If you want a fully user maintainable site then select the Wordpress, Joomla option - this is not Websitex5 territory and never will be.

The CushyCMS route, where you insert code into the generated product for the designated change areas, this is the functionality that I would like to see in X5.

However, Websitex5, is such a good product that I have dumped Dreamweaver and Webplus. It is my number one choice and will be for the future - love it.,

Wordpress is good but it requires a lot of knowledge to do the nice stuff - decent themes come to mind, I havn't got the time to get into this area properly.

My market area is the small business market who are not willing to pay the big numbers. Smile
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tfeb



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nige wrote:
Looking at the replys so far we appear to be talking about 2 variations of CMS:-
a) A product that can be used to develop and amend all areas of a website, with the relevant admin rights ie Wordpress, Joomla etc.
b) a product that can be added to selected elements of the generated code ie CushyCMS.

If you want a fully user maintainable site then select the Wordpress, Joomla option - this is not Websitex5 territory and never will be.

The CushyCMS route, where you insert code into the generated product for the designated change areas, this is the functionality that I would like to see in X5.

However, Websitex5, is such a good product that I have dumped Dreamweaver and Webplus. It is my number one choice and will be for the future - love it.,

Wordpress is good but it requires a lot of knowledge to do the nice stuff - decent themes come to mind, I havn't got the time to get into this area properly.

My market area is the small business market who are not willing to pay the big numbers. Smile


+1

Im in similar market.

Not everyone wants an expensive custom made site

I also agree about future cms capabilities. Keep it simple! Yes allow customers to amend text and maybe photos for example. But if they want more capability then go joomla.

I do want to see more features, capabilites and higher quality templates in the next verion of x5. BUT not at the expense of the simplicity of the programme!

Ive tried other products such as webplus, joomla, wix and dreamweaver and for me this is the best for my abilities.

Re cost even if incomedia did all the above i just mentioned i wouldnt pay more than £100 for the software.
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idj4u



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've successfully integrated a "novice" CMS system into X5 generated sites.

Check out www.Ecwid.com.

It's not the world's leading CMS, but as a store front system that's as novice as X5, it works really well. Just cut n paste the HTML code into an HTML panel in X5. It might be all some of you need.
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cheekyman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink

X5 is made up of Divs?

OK then show us your website!!

......and you say it's integrated into X5?

I'm not convinced until I see it working.....




Cheekyman (Frank) Cool
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idj4u



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank - not sure who your "challenge" is directed at, but here's an example of a site I was experimenting with. It's not a great site, just something I put together to see how the two system would work.

I think there's some issues with the product lists not displaying properly in certain browsers. It's a voluntary project I worked on for a family member so have not put a lot of time into making it work 100%.

But it's a start.

Product Page.
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Nige
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Frank
The site I put up used 'Cushy CMS' (www.cushycms.com. An example page, showing its usage, is available at www.take2-music.co.uk/links.html.

The links are maintained via Cushy and the setup was very easy.

It was one of my early efforts using Website X5 Evolution V7, boy what a change took place with V8.

I'm not sure whether it is still being updated but at the time the Cushy CMS fitted the requirement.
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cheekyman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink

Hi Guy's,

Sorry idj4u I did seem to come over a bit harsh! (It was 2.00am ha ha)
This is a great concept and you have done really well, I'm impressed....

The program is very refreshing regarding coding etc.....
and it does seem easy enough, but as you say there
are issues on the site itself. Maybe X5 maybe not?

I'd love for you to carry on and complete this as I'm
looking for something very similar.... are you planning to carry on?


Nige my friend I have seen posts with users claiming
they too are using Cushy CMS.
Between me and you I think people are going to far
with this utility as I tend to use Wordpress all the time for other clients.

Thanks for your input guy's this is what makes the X5
forum a great community.


Cheekyman (Frank) Cool
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